Comments on: Cargo Cult on Rails

By: Favorite Programming Quotes 2009 « Jasper Blog

Favorite Programming Quotes 2009 « Jasper Blog — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 15:02:25 +0000

[...] dictates how their systems are designed instead of the problems the systems are designed to solve. Samuel Tesla If you are single and you want to do startups, stay single. Stay single for a while, startups [...]

By: ferrisoxide

ferrisoxide — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:51:32 +0000

Comparisons with Lisp aside, I don’t think you can easily dismiss what Samuel is saying here.

As one of “those” Rails developers I have a problem with the way my job has become an endless series of small-scale, churn and burn projects. Gone has any sense of architectural development, a deep understanding of the core libraries.. all these things are unnecessary when the big decisions are made for you.

Some say this is a good thing – that eliminating the discussions on key architecture and adopting the conventions of an existing framework leads to faster and cleaner development. In part I agree, but as someone who has spent most of their career building applications with a larger breadth that the average e-commerce site I feel I’ve lost something.

So I agree with Samuel. I don’t feel like a software developer anymore, I feel like someone who fills in the blanks with code. I don’t resent Rails – but I do find myself yearning for something more.

By: Giorgio

Giorgio — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 08:19:43 +0000

In my opinion the real issue was in how Rails was sold: a blog in no time.
Of course a professional developer knows that pretty soon the convention will not fit your need and that you’ll have to go back to serious coding, including system issues, pain with deployment and bugs in the framework.
Still, if I hadn’t had at hand the easy approach of Rails (convention + scaffolding + Active Record) there are projects that I wouldn’t have started at home in the evening.
About rockstars and conventions: if the way you code depends on this or that sentence in an article or if you stick to a convention because you are lazy or you don’t know any better you are simply not working as you should, professional or not. You are the issue, not the language nor the framework.
BTW there are many good books out there that explain how to manage difficult problems in Ruby and Rails, including security, performance and more.
If you are not a pro, you can buy them and learn.

By: Jason

Jason — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 20:37:05 +0000

Talking in absolutes without any proof to back it up makes you look ignorant: “Rails developers are just that: Rails developers. They’re not software developers, at least not most of them.” Prove this.

I personally use C++, Java, .NET (C#), Python and Ruby. Everyone I know that uses Ruby or Rails uses at least 2 other languages. By uses, I mean has designed and built “productized” systems with the language. So they are tried and true developers.

What do you do besides wasting your time talking about crap that does not matter? Anything?

I agree that there is somewhat unchecked devotion to the “Rails rock stars.” However, most developers will never be as talented as the rock stars, so they clone and extend what these guys do. Not such a bad thing. At least they are not cloning and extending trash code. These guys did a really good job with Rails and continue to improve it. Again I ask, what have you done?

By: Josh

Josh — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 20:18:53 +0000

It’s quite easy.
Everyone who thinks one tool / framework / language fits for everything has not enough kowledge to be seriously called a software developer !

By: Favorite Programming Quotes 2009

Favorite Programming Quotes 2009 — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 06:11:23 +0000

By: Tim in Colorado

Tim in Colorado — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 00:31:22 +0000

@schnalle: I was about to take issue to the concept that all developers were just whatever their specialty was, when you mentioned game developers…and yes, game developers, at least serious ones, end up having to master just about everything.

Some even do Rails…though I didn’t get farther than PHP (for random small web projects unrelated to video games). I know Ruby, but not Rails…and my first taste of Rails was unpleasant, in that it needed a huge directory tree to start a minor project. Very inelegant, IMHO.

By: reddittidder

reddittidder — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:31:39 +0000

Ruby is an adequate hack and very good one for its original purpose, i.e., systems scripting. I don’t think it has all the qualities you ascribe to it though (”all the functional power of Lisp” etc)

It is good for scripting and Puppet is a testament to that. I wish more sys admins used ruby. Ruby developers (the rails set) on the other hand, seem to have developed an ill advised and un-called for illusion of grandeur that just refuses to go away.

All in all, the advent of Rails was pretty much a wash. It brought flash-in-the-pan fame to ruby, but also destroyed its soul. It will only be a shell of what it could have been by the time hansson and boys are done with it.

By: The Rails Way, or, “Framework Myopia” at Welcome to Nerdville

The Rails Way, or, “Framework Myopia” at Welcome to Nerdville — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:01:10 +0000

[...] Sam Tesla, Alieniloquent. This pretty much sums up what I love about Ruby on Rails and what I hate about [...]

By: kunjaan

kunjaan — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:22:01 +0000

It has all the .. functional power of Lisp

No it does not.